Disappointment?
- 5 Sep 08, 05:39 AM GMT
Here's the reaction from the heartland.
And this from the unconvinced.
I have to say, from my vantage point next to the DC delegation, my overall impression was that the audience in the hall were disappointed. The whisper uttered by a strong man can work in a big hall but he seemed rather engulfed and hemmed in. He was never in control.
The biggest cheers were for Sarah Palin, but what does this say about his dominance of his own ticket? She, after all, disagrees with him on one central platform item (man-made climate change) and one suspects on others as well.
That having been said, he has a certain grace, an inner strength that I suspect will have played well where serious people were watching carefully and wondering about leadership - particularly if their fears are about war and terrorism rather than the economy.
As I was leaving, the North Carolina placename fell (or was pushed over) and struck me a glancing blow before banging heavily on to the head of a woman standing next to it. Medics appeared and there was some concern, though she's OK I am glad to say. But a lucky escape for her - and for the convention...
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He's been upstaged, overshadowed, pit-bulled and lip-sticked by his running-mate. You have to feel a wee bit sorry for him.
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If you love your country the way McCain does, it was a great speech.
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I'm wondering if McCain isn't distinctly uncomfortable
in front of this convention crowd. It's hard for me
to tell from the TV what the chemistry was between
him and the delegates.
One can only hope that John will loosen up
in town hall meetings in front of Democrats
and Independents.
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McCain was awkward with the teleprompter but not with his thoughts. They were clear.
The crowd loved him. There were people in tears, especially vets.
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As an undecided voter, I have to say the speech was average. It was at it's worst when the protesters were shouted down by the "USA" chant, which gets old even for an American. The periodic interruptions that followed slowed up the speech and made it difficult to follow McCain, and his inability to read a teleprompter proved as annoying as ever. The best part of the speech was the rousing cry at the end when he started talking over the cheers, urging Americans to "fight with me," a first-class thirty seconds.
What strikes me going out of this convention is that John McCain failed to articulate, either through himself or through his surrogates, a cogent agenda. This creates a clear opening for the Democrats on economic issues. Absent another geopolitical crisis, this is a "bread-and-butter" election, something the Democrats should be comfortable with. Roll up your sleeves, guys (and gal) the real election starts here!
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I believe in America and the freedom that is synonymous (or at least used to be) with America, and therefore, I believe in John McCain.
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It's not just one issue.... Her positions on climate change (not real), creationism (teach it), abortion (not under any circumstances), taxes on oil company profits (she apparently increased them in Alaska), drilling in ANWR (she wants it), and quite likely immigration and waterboarding are way out of line with McCain's. This was all skillfully hidden though, and for that successful deception the GOP should be applauded. Bravo!
The way she overshadows McCain, flanks him on the right, hews to secrecy amid controversy, and hides from prying media questions reminds me of the Bush-Cheney relationship.
I'm still unclear on the McCain economic plan. That us what most people are truly worried about, and rationally so. Wars and even terrorism are distant things. The catastrophes that people think about every day (outsourcing my job, losing my home, being unable to retire or care for my parent or sick child) were not addressed. After the hype dies down I think that will take a couple of weeks to sink in.
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To call the Huffington Post "unconvinced" is highly misleading - you might as well call Richard Dawkins "unconvinced" about God.
And I don't think "man-made climate change" is a central platform element - "Climate change" is. Palin doesn't yet understand the science, but nor to 99% of people either. And anyway it's not as simple as "man-made" vs "non-man-made", climate change is clearly influenced both by human and non-human factors.
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AndreaInNY, I love my country the way Obama does -- by working for a brighter future, not living in the past. So for me, Obama's speech was really the great one.
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BTW I'm glad to hear that the lady struck by the North Carolina sign was OK. Even if they're aluminum or something, an impact to the head would still hurt.
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The whole thing certainly seemed kind of stuck in the 80s to me. The basic theme of the convention was the same as 2004, and I thought the oddness of that really stood out. McCain seemed uncomfortable. He is suddenly espousing change, now that the experience thing has been worn out, but the rhetoric was classic core republican...not change. The overly militaristic furor of the convention was a little scary, considering the vast majority of Americans are feed up with the whole war thing. It was more like a VFW convention.
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#4. AndreainNY: "There were people in tears, especially vets." But not the younger one holding a sign which TV cameras picked up briefly - he didn't appear to think much of Mr McCain.
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#6, Darth and others...
Yes, the speech was average and lacking in
specifics. So was Obama's acceptance speech.
There is something about the setting or the
politics of the situation which has prevented
either of these candidates to speak well at
their own conventions.
With McCain, it's because he can't say what
he thinks in front of his own party. I don't know
what Obama's excuse was.
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I really, really tried to watch his speech but that green background was awful. And the rest of the setting... Well, I kept thinking someone was about to tap him on the shoulder and ask him to move so they could bowl another frame!
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The BBC chose to have their reporter on the Today program this morning, located at the Convention, report on the Dick Cheney visit to Georgia.
BBC News are trying to link McCain to the Bush Administration.
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Betting odds are still about 60:40 in favor of Obama. The convention did not appear to improve McCain's chances.
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Maybe, like me, most people don't watch the convention.
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14, guns.
If Obama had not given his speech in dirge tempo it might have sounded better. I don't know if he eventually speeded up because I couldn't stand it anymore and turned off the television.
Abe Lincoln where are you?
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chill0 @16: McCain is a Republican, he's been endorsed by Bush/Cheney, and his running mate was suggested by the same people who ran the 2000 and 2004 campaigns (Karl Rove and friends).
They don't need BBC News to "link McCain to the Bush Administration", the link is there already and it's stronger than ever... which makes McCain's latest campaign message look fake. McCain's administration will be run by the same men who ran the Bush Administration, exactly like it's happening with his campaign.
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Why is it that the right to life people like Palin are also the gun nuts that like to kill as many animals as possible?
Also Allieway why is freedom synonymous with the US? Surely every other democratic nation is free. Try telling Australian's, Brits, Kiwis etc that the US has a mortgage on freedom.
Being a sassy hockey mum does not qualify you to be the most powerful person in the world. Both speeches were focused on scoring cheap points rather than soild political solutions, emphasising their weak policies (Obama was only slightly better).
This whole circus only serves for populist vote scoring and results in presidents such as Bush.
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Again, the Republican party fails to tell us what their agenda is. All what was basically heard from McCain tonight was:
1) I' am an American hero (highlight of his speech)
2) Same old 9/11 scare tactics.
3) Blatant lies about Obama raising taxes when Barack has repeatedly said he would cut taxes for 95% of Americans.
4) And that change is coming. (Really John? How are you going to do that? People want to know)
Basically the same GOP approach: "Don't vote for Obama because he's inexperienced, etc."
How about telling the American voters what you plan to do?
And to AndreaInNY who seems to be a propaganda spamer: I love my country and I felt underwhelmed by McCains speech who was actually upstaged by his VP.
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McCain managed to get through his tired well worn old stump speech with out falling of the stage or breaking the microphone. So in a sense I supposed he enjoyed some measure of success tonight. But quite frankly, he has been overshadowed by his running mate who has only been governor of Alaska slightly longer than John McCain has been campaigning for president. At this point it seems that McCain vs. Obama will be a gross mismatch, somewhat like lets say Bambi vs. Godzilla.
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The excitement for Palin was for her track record of reform and non-Socialist change. Oh, and for her gender, too. After the humiliation of Hillary at the hands of the Democrats, the Stereotyped Republicans had the last laugh in recognizing that women can lead, too.
McCain is an American Hero...not an American Idol. Obama has been annointed by the American press as The Chosen One. The American people will prove them wrong in November.
Perhaps Mr. Webb could use a primer on the history of American Political Conventions. He is making observations without understanding the nuances of the process.
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I am not sure the specifics of economic policy matter much from either candidate, beyond the broad direction in which they would like to go.
They are going to be blown around by economic gales from several directions. The USA has the highest deficit ever and in about a year it is likely to have major inflation following the major interest rate cuts over the last few months.
I think they both know of this economic turbulence but their responses are instructive.
Barack Obama is trapped in a political philosophy which involves government spending. I believe he is trying to follow the Third Way pioneered by Bill Clinton to make the economy grow and increase the tax take to pay for that spending. The problem is that much of the current economic cycle is outside of any government's control, so what can he do then ?
In the face of that, he still makes the promises. There does not seem to be a Plan B.
McCain is lucky, I suppose, that his agenda does not involve a lot of spending. To those who say that the Iraq War is a huge cost, I seriously doubt that John McCain or Barack Obama would do anything different from here on in. A withdrawal plan is being worked out with the Iraqi government, that is how it will play out.
Foreign policy may be a major differentiator in the coming Presidency. I believe that Barack Obama and John McCain would react quite differently to the various foreign policy problems that face the USA. What your opinion is of those differences will probably vary on a case by case basis.
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#20 supertoyg
Do you have any evidence for that ?
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I was quite mesmerized by the Republican convention, not because of their speakers, nor the way they manipulated the truth, but by the shocking realization that the Republican Party, it's members, and their inability to work within the current world setting, has become a slow moving, slowly dying dinosaur.
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I thought the speech was about as awful as I suspected it would be. It was not as disgusting as Giuliani's appalling speech or as hypocritical as Palin's idiotic blather, but it was definitely twice as boring.
The bottom line is that McCain's all-natual sleep aid speech will not win him any new supporters. The super rich, evangelicals, pro-lifers and military dinosaurs will all say it was amazing. These people are overexcited by crunchy peanut butter and would never vote for Obama anyway.
I can't wait to see the debates. My hope is that the stupid working class people in this country, who have no business voting for a Republican, will see just a bit of themselves in Obama and vote accordingly. The Republicans certainly don't care about them and I've never understood the allegiance.
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23, ljbella.
Which one is Bambi and which one is Godzilla?
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As a former military officer and conservative / Republican supporter for years, my views are absolutely reinforced after this speech and GOP events of the last couple of days.
Absolutely nothing personal against John McCain, but here in 2008 he is not the right man to lead the free world backed by a last minute VP appointee candidate - still as yet unknown.
The specification for this role includes massive domestic re-engineering to rectify wholesale Republican failings for the last x8 years, yes.
But most importantly, this new President has to be blessed with uniquely different qualities of statesmanship, leadership and charisma to deal effectively with markedly different evolving world challenges - both the here and nows and those lying over the brow of the hill.
There is an unbelievable global naivity that a World War can never manifest itself again. I beg to differ. Being currently based in the Caucasas region, I am astounded, by way of example, the way that Georgia has been allowed to propel itself into a potential conflict crucible of huge proportions. Propel itself and allowed, you ask?
Issues of deep seated ethnicity, religion and culture that have built up over generations here and elswhere, are not easily fixed by gung ho threats or poorly calculated and planned military interventions. Examples?
1. Ask ordinary Iraqi villagers, that I have seen astride the MSRs linking Baghdad to Kuwait. Many are still living in abject poverty without a proper roof over their heads after x5 years of instilling the panacea of democracy on their country. Ask them what democracy actually means and is doing for them? Properly and honestly channelled the effective delivery of those aid $billions from hard working Americans could have had far more effect on the population than reality indicates.
2. If Russia piled over and annexed some of Alaska the US would not be backwards in coming forwards to defend its national interests. So how did Russia feel being on the back end of a military intervention visiting actual harm on Russian nationals living in those areas on its back doorstep without warning?
The tough talking of DickCheney over the last x48 hours, the US proffers of $1 Bn in aid and commitment to standing beside its ally is one approach - but the wrong approach. What on earth stopped the US from being far more perceptive to the needs of both Georgia and Russia and i) reigning in President Saakashvili before he was allowed to trigger his ill-fated plan and ii) responsibly bringing together parties and working to diplomatically manage out these deep seated regional issues? (of which there are several others too).
My point is simply this. Diplomacy, Foreign Relations and Communications are the required tools of the trade for the future. Going back to basics and US isolationism and wielding big sticks to see off enemies is not the answer.
The US needs to convert enemies and perceived enemies into friends right now. The best person to do this has great intellect; develpment potential; carries no baggage; has demonstrated a marked affinity to gel with other key heads of states and has a profile not biased towards jingoism. I believe his approach and persona will curry deep respect and understanding from many nations and human beings worldwide looking earnestly for this lead.
This person is Senator Barack Obama.
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24, Kathy.
Being captured and tortured makes you a victim, not a hero. A hero is someone who goes into a burning building to save someone and hopefully gets out alive himself.
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For an interesting and, it seems to me, objective analysis of the basic differences between the Democrat and the Republican economic polices and philosophies, and the historical results that have emanated from these, I recommend: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?em
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McCain is clearly outclassed by Obama in almost every area. If this was a tennis match, rather than a race for office, it would be straight sets ... 6/4 6/2 6/2 something like that.
Despite that, I think McCain is likely to win in November. Maybe even win easily. That's going to say something about "Middle America" that might be quite difficult to acknowledge.
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McCain did pretty well talking about his experience getting shot down. But he's had enough time to rehearse that one over the years. Now he just seems like a one-trick pony. I'm still waiting for McCain's economic plan.
And Dems don't even need to question his war record. Republicans did that already in 2000.
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Well McCain thats it......Obama the next President
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That's unfortunate that the Kansas City Star, "the reaction from the heartland", appears sold on McCain's less than stellar speech. I'm from Kansas City, and there is much more support for Obama in the city than McCain. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the paper would suggest something different.
The best part about McCain's speech was the personal story about his experience as a POW, and it was truly moving. However, he failed to distance himself from the Republican party, and offered no real alternatives to the policy platform presented by the Democrats on issues like health care. Also, he was upstaged the entire convention by his choice for VP, and many I know are less than sold on Palin, including myself.
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What nobody seems to have noticed is that neither Obama nor McCain have mentioned any policy whatesoever. Frankly, I expect better reporting from the BBC.
They both deal out virtues to the faithful like candy and say they're patriotic (and most Americans think patriotism means agreeing with the government) but what are they going to actually do? Double funding for Medicaid? Rebuild New Orleans? Get the homeless off the streets? Tax the super-rich?
We know precisely nothing about their policies. If it's McCain, however, we know that for all the promise of change, if he gets elected he'll hand all the power right back to the oilmen
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Wow, that's a surprise.
Following a year long news black out on even mentioning his name.
The BBCs man was not impressed by McCains speech.
If you search your heart, do you think it is possible that you may be just a little biased about him?
(For the record - I'm neutral on this election: I don't think we should interfere in other peoples elections and I don't know enough about one of the candidates to have an opinion)
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FYI, Huffington Post isn't the "unconvinced". If Barak Obama himself said he was unfit and no one should vote for him, the HuffPost would still be cheerleading for him. I mean really, the National Enquirer too high-brow for you?
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It was a poor performance. I agree with the previous comment that the strongest part of the speech was the end.
We all know that the conventions are well timed and well staged. McCain's speech reminded me of a distance uncle at a wedding. Everyone respected what he had to say but, really there no conviction.
I have noticed the age of the GOP convention crowd. McCain will have to rely on people closer his own age to see him in the White House come Jan 09.
The TV head to head interviews between McCain + Obama will be fascinating. I really hope for McCain's sake he improves as I can see his approval dropping dramatically. Obama will take him to the cleaners.
The VP head to head will be great viewing. I feel there is something about Palin that will come to light in the next few weeks. She seems like she could get carried away and when the hard hitting questions are asked, it could be curtains for the Republicans.
As for McCain and his speech. 4/10.
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NimrodDave, the NYT? That's only slightly less worse than the HuffPost. Demcrats "better" at economics? Clinton - dot-com bubble and corporate fraud is his economic legacy, like Blair he managed to hand over this mess to someone else before it blew up. Carter? Worst recession since the Depression, allowed Pakistan to acquire nuclear weapons - though they wouldn't make a test until 90s - oh and actual record oil prices. Initiated the funding of mujahideen and chose the route of the ISI thereby ensuring the craziest of the nutters got the money. LBJ? Destroyed the dollar with inflationary spending oh and Vietnam, only war the US didn't win mainly by following Obama's methodology of giving up. Kennedy - again left the office before his policies could destroy the economy, leaving that to LBJ.
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So much for straight-talking, folksey, just-like-you John McCain's claim to being an ordinary fellow.
I guess this is the new preferred vehicle for "regular" folks.
"Dissapointed" doesn't begin to cover what I feel about John McCain and his speech.
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McCain seems like a good-enough guy, although I have grave doubts he'd make it to the end of his first term, let alone a second. So the choice of VP carries significantly more weight than Bush's choice of Quayle.
Palin is an irresponsible choice for VP. By selecting someone who is a fundamentalist, McCain has shown he can pander to the 'special interest' groups with the best of them. He lost his credibility as a maverick with this one.
Whatever experience Palin may have, she has shown herself to be a self-serving politician, filling up the pork-barrel when it suits her, then claiming she fought it when it suits her.
The person I feel the most sympathy for in this campaign is that poor 17-year old "couple". Thrust into the limelight, the boy facing a shotgun wedding and the prospect of living in a glass house for the coming years. I really wouldn't be surprised if we soon read of his suicide, but Palin seems hell-bent on keeping up the facade. A responsible parent wouldn't do this to her child.
And what of this, "no abortion under any circumstances" lie of hers? If that is really true, how on earth did she find out her baby had Down's Syndrome months before the birth? Clearly she had tests done, and was told, which means clearly there were circumstances under which she would have had an abortion. What a charade. The blatant hypocrisy and double-standards of fundamentalists is shocking.
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#30 BillTyrone
I agree with that.
I am not so sure about the rest of your analysis.
The Georgian crisis was widely reported here as having been caused entirely by Saakashvili. It is only if you look at the fine print that you see Putin in it. The South Ossetian militias - armed by the Russians with some pretty heavy weapons - attacked the Georgians over several days before the Georgians attacked them. Saakashvili said (I cannot tell if he meant it) that he wanted peace talks during that time. The Russians did not respond, to my knowledge or from anything I have read.
The Iraq War was prompted by Saddam Hussein having played the UNSC for many years. Again, as far as I can tell (and please correct me if you know better) there was no conspiracy outside of Iraq about WMD. All of the western intelligence agencies believed he had WMD, the only difference of opinion was about its scale and delivery options.
The Russians have a clear vested interest in Georgia. They want to prevent the oil and gas pipeline which bypasses Russian-controlled territory from being exploited by the West.
Saddam Hussein wanted to control Iraq's oil resources. They were not, however in his heartland - they were in Shi'a and Kurdish areas so he went to war on his own people. The insurgents effectively continued that war by constantly attacking attempts to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure. They wanted Iraqis in poverty so that they would hate the Americans. It worked.
How do you expect a President to respond to these things ? Are they none of your business ? That was what successive American administrations said to dictators all over the world, especially in South America. They would support any murderer who furthered American interests.
They were criticised for it at home by people like Jimmy Carter who had an 'ethical' foreign policy.
Joe Biden wanted to send troops to Darfur. Just recently, the Sudanese launched another campaign in North Darfur (under cover of the Olympics) to clear Block 12A, a potentially oil-rich area. This is so that they can suipply CNPC - the Chinese. Do you just ignore it ?
Do you take these issues to the UN as Barack Obama suggests ? The Russians and Chinese have vetoes. They have ruthlessly vetoed what is not in their interest in the past, as has the USA. That is a way of saying you will do nothing while looking good. Is it really good ?
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BillTyrone's comments were a breath of fresh air. Let's hope that lots of US voters are as rational come election day.
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Justin,
You should not be surprised that McCain's speech was woeful; he's a terrible public speaker, it beggars belief as to how he got the nod for the presidential candidacy in the first place. Are you only just now realising this? This man is even more phlegmatic than Gordon Brown and that's saying something.
The Republicans have the cheek to droan on about the fact that they don't know what Barack Obama's policies are, and thousands of them sit down in front of McCain whose policies are so sparse, they're almost non-existant. Surely America must now see that there is only one man that can be voted into the white house come November, and that man of course, is Barack Obama. His policies make more sense and have more in the way of cohesion and more importantly, they exist!
Hopefully, if pockets of white America can rid themselves of their innately racist views, they'll vote for the "right" candidate and Obama will be walking across the threshold to the white house come November.
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Justin,
The plain fact is that Mr McCain will be the next President of the USA and Obama will not.
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No.30 Bill, you give me hope.
Let's be honest, McCain is a woolly thinker as evidenced by the number of flip-flops he has performed recently. His support will come from those who would blindly vote for anyone who mentions America, God, the flag, the troops, patriotism, terrorism and fighting all in one sentence and those who have a neocon agenda as evidenced by his shadow Joe Lieberman.
By the way, did you know John McCain was a POW?
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The comment about McCain is always so negative. If Obama was as great as he's cracked up to be, shouldn't this election already be in the bag for him.
If there was an election in the UK tomorrow, Brown would be out, and Labour pretty much decimated.
America has the same issues, yet the Republicans are in with a fighting chance - surely that's because Obama just doesn't lift people the way the media says he does, and McCain is way more convincing than the media make him out to be.
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Here's why McCain couldn't connect with the crowd.
It's not his party anymore.
However, the point could be made that any
appointments to the Supreme Court require
the assent of the Senate, which would be
unlikely to agree with Palin.
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As an Englishman I find the whole tenure of the American system to elect a president very flawed. The so-called 'greatest Democracy' cannot even perfect its ludicrously inaccurate electronic voting system which produces serious errors at every Election. However, I would welcome an American's explanation of why so many people claim that because McCain was a Prisoner of War in Vietnam, it automatically makes him a good candidate. He was a bomber pilot who, on his own admission, was bombing areas of high population, i.e. a civilian target, was shot down and kept in prison for a few years. What choice did he have in this event. He couldn't stop himself being shot down, he couldn't avoid capture, and whilst in prison, he had no choice of what he could do, i.e. he was powerless the whole time. How does this make him a good choice for president?
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I didn't know McCain was a good friend of Georgian president Saakashvili. I'm now pretty scared that he will get involved in that mess. How many war fronts do we need?
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Is is sad that we all need to keep up with what is going on in the US election...Unfortunatelly we can not turn a blind eye an think is not our business... god help the world by removing the republicans from power in the US....if we want world peace, diplomacy, and world leadirship the last thing the world needs is a gun totting, religious fundamentalist in the white house, and lets be clear on this ... there are no maverycks in the republican party ... that would be contradiction !!!...they all belong to the same old boy network...
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I am very neutral in this overall election, in fact quite disappointed that the BBC is giving so much detail to it. So with that "context" here is my reaction - Justin, I do think that your reading of the speech and the reaction from the crowd is overly pessimistic.
It was clear that McCain's speech took so long because he got cheered for almost every sentence! We could hardly hear his finale! So how do you analyse that in anyway as being subdued or disappointment?!
Sure, may be the friends of the lobbyists and other Washington insiders were quiet because they now need to go and find new jobs! And dare i suggest Justin that you most probably are associated with that in-crowd, since that is how you will get most of your information.
So please stay focused and a bit more objective for those of us who do not have the "privilege" of being over in the US.
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A strange, superficial reaction from many on here. John McCain is not a great speechmaker. Period. Just as Barack Obama is a very skilled public speaker. It is therefore no great surprise that the speech was functional and at times dull rather than spectacular. Most American voters - at least those on whom this election depends - will be aware of this.
As a speech, Palin's was far more important. While McCain is well known, Palin is far more obscure and therefore needed to nail her one big chance to endear herself to the electorate. I would say she did pretty well. For McCain, the key last night was to persuade voters that he could unite the country, and persuade voters that he was not George W the second. For all his lack of stage presence, I feel he achieved both these aims last night.
Taken as a whole, the Republicans can be pleased with their convention - they did the right thing with regard to Gustav, they came across as a totally united party (far more so than the Democrats), and there were some excellent speeches. Palin's we've all heard about, but Mike Huckabee's was a particular gem. Romney was effective, while Rudy Giuliani went down very well, although personally I don't like his speaking style. McCain's speech was not as good as any of these, but nor was it expected to be.
With both Obama and Palin such new figures on the political stage, the studio debates will carry far more significance this time round. Obama has been exposed quite dreadfully before without an autocue; if he does not improve, then McCain can dominate here. Should Obama hold his own, he should win the presidency. Biden is regarded as an excellent debater, but Palin has a fearsome reputation too. The smart money is on Biden's experience to be too much for Palin, but should Palin come out on top, the Democrat campaign will suddenly look very lightweight indeed.
Speechmaking is overrated in modern politics, and deep down, I'm sure many of the commenters here, who are pointing to McCain's poor speechmaking as proof positive that Obama's the man, know this. I would guess that the vast majority of these will be talking up Gordon Brown - a terrible public speaker - back home in the UK, while sneering at David Cameron - a very accomplished public speaker - for being all style and no substance.
The Democrat convention saw very little "bounce" in the opinion polls, though the initial reaction to Sarah Palin saw a rise in Democrat figures. After Palin's successful debut, and a successful Republican Convention, we will probably see the figures return to the levels they were - a narrow Obama lead.
It's all to play for in the studio debates. Here, however, it is Obama who has the most to prove.
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Oh please. Justin Webb's comments on the running text commentary article shows he's fully in Obama's camp.
This headline is simply a cheap way for Justin Webb to pass his opinion for his favorite candidate as news.
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Now that CNN has done his life story and he has done his big speech, mentioning once again that he actually got caught and locked up in a morally wrong war (quite embarrassing actually, nothing to boast of), can someone give McCain a medal and ask him to kindly fade away? but no, he wants to, and may actually become, president in a world and century that he has not yet arrived in!
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The BBC showed one manual worker who announced that Obama took the oath of office on a Koran instead of a Bible.
That, of course, is false, but the man speaking was an American voter.
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You have to look at the audience McCain is going after.
He is not going to loud enthisiastic speech( like Obama or Palin) that is not who he is. And most Americans hate phonies.
He is trying to get the independents who want someone who goes beyond party and those notes struck
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# 54 ~
Even more so, what on earth is Dick Cheney doing wandering around the Caucasian states ?
I can understand that they wanted him to be about as far away from Minnesota as possible (and geographically he is) but Georgia and Azerbajan ? That's a tinderbox which the European leaders understand and have been handling with the most delicate of delicate kid gloves.
And now Cheney turns up.
Couldn't he have gone to New Orleans or even Florida to help with the floof relief - which is the sort of thing that Vice Presidents do ?
Seems pretty scary to me - and he's the one with the power for the next third of a year.
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Pleased stop wasting my money and your time and energy with precipitate, pointless reporting of this political bullshit. Must we really be subjected to trivial silliness and breathtaking dishonesty - "Change is coming!" from a 20-year Washington politician who voted to invade Iraq and proclaims himself a man of peace? It demeans the BBC to give front-page space to this farcical game show.
If you must report on the interminable narcissistic windbaggery, please allow yourselves a few minutes to digest and analyse the speeches, so that the BBC is not culpable in promoting blatant and easily refuted lies such as "[Obama] has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform" :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/today/jimnaughtie/2008/09/a_roman_triumph.html
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/campaign_2008_/2008/09/palin_v_reality.php
For the record, Obama and the Democrats' campaign is hardly any better. Please, Aunty Beeb, take a moment, step back, deep breath : is all this really front-page news?
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As an English man looking in from the outside, judging matters on the current situation in the USA, the way the USA interacts with other countries, the challenges facing the world and what the candidates actually say - and discounting the biased and warped utterings of talk show hosts - surely there is only one choice the American people can make.
If they make that right choice I see some hope for the world as the USA is and will remain one of the most important driving forces in world affairs
Make the wrong choice - more confrontational foreign policy, ignoring Global Warming.....
I am involved in politics in the UK - my party is non-mainstream - and I am completely disillusioned by the two choices of government that will face me in due course
If one of those choices was Barack Obama, well that would be quite a different matter !!!
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Gosh, Justin, rather gallant of you to 'break the fall' of that placename.. - you don't think someone was trying to 'bump you off' the ticket, so to speak.. ?
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I too am an Englishman but unlike others, I don't find the US Presidential System flawed, I admire it.
Whatever the outcome, the US Electorate (or the proportion that bother to vote) have a say in the choice of their next Head of State.
In the UK we happen to be 'blessed' with whoever is fortunate enough to be the eldest child born into the House of Windsor (or whatever ruling Royal House)
The American system isn't perfect but it is far better than our system. Perhaps those Brits who sneer at the US should remember the old saying 'Those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones...'
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It was watching the decline of a once military hero into a ghost of Petain or von Hindenburg. This is the deceptive betrayal of his and his ancestor's heritage.
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If Governor Palin is upstaging Senator John McCain, then we have a serious problem in our US politics. It means people are not reading with their brains; rather, those people are accepting unquestioned ideology. As for patriotism, why would a man who loves his country pick a successor who is right wing?
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For John McCain, the upside of picking Sarah Palin is that social conservatives will now support him but the downside will be a clear restrictions on what he can achieve in office - it is fair to say that if elected, the lipsticking wearing pit-bull will muzzle him!
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Having watched both speeches i have to say McCain was dissapointing, his lack of control over the crowd was indicative, to me at least, that he doesnt perhaps have the same weight with the delegates as Obama does, mccain did seem uneasy and seemed to talk with very little passion except fot certain parts.
I think now after the conventions and after appointing running mates Obama has a clear advantage, he used his speach to set out some clear ideas on what he wanted to achieve and some idea of how he was going to do it, he also used his speach to land some fairly tough, but id say well founded criticism on john maccain without disrespecting him, on his voting record for example.
As for vp canidates obama picked someone with experience and a solid record in teh foreign policy arena and also someone with more appeal to the demographics he has had reaching such as the blue collar workers and such, mccain has shot himself in the foot picking palin, she his headline grabbing being a woman an all, but she overshadowed him at the convention and has rather extreme views, he has also added servere inexperience to his ticket something which he was using to undermine obama, palin has very little experience of how politics in washington works, and tho that does mean shes not part of the system it also means she will take a long time to find her feet and perhaps build the connections that the otehr 3 have made in their time in wasington.
Lastly picking someone with an outstanding investigation into allegations of using her position to affect the lives of other state employees for her personal reasons is very definatley not a smart choice by mccain, if the invesitgation goes against palin all the wheels fall off the mccain wagon they really do
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68. At 10:53am on 05 Sep 2008, juliewriter wrote:
If Governor Palin is upstaging Senator John McCain, then we have a serious problem in our US politics. It means people are not reading with their brains; rather, those people are accepting unquestioned ideology. As for patriotism, why would a man who loves his country pick a successor who is right wing?
Why would anyone of sense and judgment pick a half educated individual as deputy who beleives the earth wwas created in seven days and that global warming is somehow "natural".
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I find it odd that so much of the text of the candidates (and bloggers) seems to concern the fight for freedom without bothering to define, even broadly, what you're on about. Anecdotally, one of my son's is in the US and finds a lot of petty hindrances to his daily life compared with life in Europe. Maybe finding a President that looks outwards for a change (that's a good word this year) instead of re-enforcing your own perceptions of the US would be a good thing. I wonder which candidate that will be. Any clues ?
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I find the comments on Justin Webb's supposed Obama 'bias' amusing. It seems to me that Justin tends to include links to more right leaning or critical commentaries. Of course he could be doing this as some kind of ploy - hoping we will see the craziness on the American right! I have found that Justin does tend to express some rather naive responses to critics of the US - is there a term Americanophile? But his interview of Carly Fiorinna was very strong. My guess is that the BBC's old argument could be cited here: that if they get complaints from both sides then they must have it about right.
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As a non American looking in I have to say that John McCain is not leadership material and his running mate is even less so. Her speech reminded me of a silly school girl reading out an essay in front of a class.
McCain's speech was probably even worse, he has the charisma and personality of a damp cloth and his calls for change strike me as a bit silly seen as he has voted 90% plus with Bush in the senate and is an old man with no new ideas.
The whole world is watching this election and I have to say that we are all hoping the American public do not let us down again by voting in the republicans.
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"57. At 09:38am on 05 Sep 2008, NiceLinesGiddo wrote:
A strange, superficial reaction from many on here. John McCain is not a great speechmaker. Period. Just as Barack Obama is a very skilled public speaker. It is therefore no great surprise that the speech was functional and at times dull rather than spectacular. Most American voters - at least those on whom this election depends - will be aware of this. "
But they won't necessarily like it. People in times of uncertainty tend to like being roused, n ot bored.
"As a speech, Palin's was far more important. While McCain is well known, Palin is far more obscure and therefore needed to nail her one big chance to endear herself to the electorate. I would say she did pretty well. For McCain, the key last night was to persuade voters that he could unite the country, and persuade voters that he was not George W the second. For all his lack of stage presence, I feel he achieved both these aims last night."
You feel being upstaged by his Vice Presidnetial candidate was what he wanted?
Hardly unless the man is a complete fool. McCain convinced voters that he was the tired old man the Democrats painted him as.
"Taken as a whole, the Republicans can be pleased with their convention - they did the right thing with regard to Gustav, they came across as a totally united party (far more so than the Democrats), and there were some excellent speeches. Palin's we've all heard about, but Mike Huckabee's was a particular gem. Romney was effective, while Rudy Giuliani went down very well, although personally I don't like his speaking style. McCain's speech was not as good as any of these, but nor was it expected to be."
Whihc shows expectations of McCain are fairly low. Being outshone by others is not good for a candidate in any election. particularly at an event they are supposed to dominate.
"With both Obama and Palin such new figures on the political stage, the studio debates will carry far more significance this time round. Obama has been exposed quite dreadfully before without an autocue; if he does not improve, then McCain can dominate here. Should Obama hold his own, he should win the presidency."
Obama has proven he is a natural speaker and effective debater, this is his type of forum. Whether anyone takes any notice of these debates is another matter.
" Biden is regarded as an excellent debater, but Palin has a fearsome reputation too. The smart money is on Biden's experience to be too much for Palin, but should Palin come out on top, the Democrat campaign will suddenly look very lightweight indeed."
Palin will have been so weakened by then she will be on the defensive. Already there is another attack on her past, most carefully timed and therefore effective.
"Speechmaking is overrated in modern politics, and deep down, I'm sure many of the commenters here, who are pointing to McCain's poor speechmaking as proof positive that Obama's the man, know this. I would guess that the vast majority of these will be talking up Gordon Brown - a terrible public speaker - back home in the UK, while sneering at David Cameron - a very accomplished public speaker - for being all style and no substance."
Depends on what is said.
"The Democrat convention saw very little "bounce" in the opinion polls, though the initial reaction to Sarah Palin saw a rise in Democrat figures. After Palin's successful debut, and a successful Republican Convention, we will probably see the figures return to the levels they were - a narrow Obama lead."
"It's all to play for in the studio debates. Here, however, it is Obama who has the most to prove."
No the work will be done before the debates. The republicans have an almost impossible task. They have to be against the incumbent, despite the fact he is inthe same party. They have to advocate the importance of experience, though at the same time promise radical change through the selction of a novice VP.
And they are up against a candidate who has already shown he can defeat the most experienced and seasoned of campaigners.
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Unlike any country in the world, foreign policy of the US is not a question of how the future president will react to world situations. There is no doubt that both candidates will be able to react properly to future crisis. But foreign policy for the US is a question of how the future President will want to see the world. On this basis McCain is better positioned. A younger person may be a genius but there is no good replacement for experience. That is what everybody looks for in hiring people so why not use the same argument for the highest job? A case in point is the 29 year old Defense Minister of Georgia (not to mention the young president) who can not compete with his counterpart over the Caucasus range. One day those young energetic intellectuals will also acquire experience in time, but time is what we have to wait for. McCain showed his experience in his speech.
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McCain in his acceptance speech praises his
own militray judgment by having advocated
a troop surge in Iraq. He then calls that a success. In reality the surge in Iraq was
the distraction the Taleeban needed to
rebuild their strength in Afghanistan. The overall military picture was ignored by McCain. Change for McCain means changing the spotlight. His choice for VP Ms Palin is a Creationist who bans library books. That was not put into the spotlight!
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What is terifying about all of it is that Palin is deemed electable because she has a family. The facts that, in her belief in creationism, she wishes to take us back to the middle ages, and that in other ways, her religious funadmentalism for example, she is resolutely unenlightened and, therefore, uncivilised, seem not to matter. They should.
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This is the man who was passed over by his party before; whose party judged George W. Bush to be better than him. Now that same party is offering him as their candidate for the Presidency. His party apparently sacrifices its own principles with such ease, just so they can grab the power.
And yes, #62, what IS Dick doing in Georgia and Azerbajan? He is doing his utmost to provoke yet another war to protect the oil interests of the US, and create a cushy income from Haliburton when he leaves office. He doesn't care if he starts WWIII in the process. He seems blind to history.
For those who believe he is defending democracy and freedom in Georgia: Tell that to Iran whose democratic government was replaced decades ago by a dictatorship when it threatened US oil interests. Tell that to the Saudis and Kuwaitis - especially their women - when the US supports the dictatorships there. Tell that to the Afghans whose freedoms were stripped away when the US supported the Taliban in the late 70s. The list goes on.
The fundamentalists in the US have hijacked the Republican party, and are intent on removing freedom from its citizens, and bringing about the Apocalypse any way they can.
If McCain is elected President, be afraid, be very afraid. He brings with him to power all the "good ol' boys" of the Republican party, and Palin will be their star.
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Justin,
I tune in to the BBC as often as I can to get up to the minute news and analysis. While I often get the former, the depth of the latter leaves a lot to be desired.
In essence, the Beeb seems to have the preconcieved notion that Democrats = good, Republicans = bad. From where I sit, it doesn't make a difference which party gets in, similar issues will arise and will need to be dealt with by McCain or Obama.
If you accept my criticism, can we please get back to analysing policies and the tracking of opinion polls. In that way, we might actually learn something of interest.
All the best
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"The excitement for Palin was for her track record of reform and non-Socialist change."
Wtf? Do you know what socialism is? Besides being un-American, of course.
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Justin, if you were superstitious, you might take that as a sign that the Republicans will lose North Carolina. It certainly reminds me of the omens that Sejanus tried to dismiss before his fall at the hands of Macro (for those not up with Roman history, Sejanus was the henchman of Tiberius who was torn to pieces by the Roman people).
And #49, some reasoned logic would help. It is likely that the number of people voting at this election will exceed the last time: a good guess might be that 120-130 million people will cast a vote. At the moment the straws in the wing suggest that Obama will win by about 4%. More importantly it is McCain who has to play defence. He has very few Dem states that he can turn, but he has at least a dozen states he has to defend. The odds are against him. Iowa is leaning Obama, as are Nevada and New Mexico: that alone would be enough to secure victory. More seriously McCain is having to fight to defend Virginia, Ohio, Indiana, North Carolina, Florida, Missouri, and Colorado. Obama won't get all of those, but one is all that is required. And remember that by early next week, Ike is due to make a direct hit on Miami. That may well have a very big impact on the result in Florida and elsewhere.
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#74
In my experience what Justin does is not so much express his own view than point to issues in a way that are likely to give rise to debate and comment. It is not about Republican or Democrat bias ... a couple of days ago he was accused of being a stooge of the GOP.
Now as for wacko sources of information ... anyone seen the National Enquirer today: it was rumoured they had the big scoop on Palin ;)
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#57 NiceLinesGuiddo
You say Mike Hukabee's speech was a "gem".
This bit wasn't very gem-like:
"Barack Obama's excellent adventure to Europe...(LAUGHTER)... took his campaign for change to hundreds of thousands of people who don't even vote or pay taxes here. But let me hasten to say that it's not what he took there that concerns me. It's what he brought back: European ideas that give the government the chance to grab even more of our liberty and destroy our hard-earned livelihood."
He's making a cheap shot: "Americans good, Europeans bad". Presumably that goes down well with Republican conference-goers. As a citizen of a country who stood and still stands "shoulder to shoulder" with the USA after 9/11 and is still losing soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan his comments are at best insensitive, at worst dishonourable.
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What struck me the most during Senator McCain's campaign speech was his discussion of the right of the American people to make their own choices. According to McCain, the government should be on the sidelines, not forcing a way of life upon them. This is the traditional Republican model. Nevertheless, both he and his running mate are pro-life (ie, anti-choice). Not to mention that Governor Palin is also against abortions in situations where a woman is raped or involved in incest. Furthermore, McCain is a staunch believer that marriage is a union between only man and woman, and he will work to see that this is put into law. As an undecided voter, this really makes me question whether or not he truly believes in the ability of the American people to make their own choices. If he is elected President this November, and if he enacts these policies, how can one say that his government would not be interfering in the lives of citizens? He implied in his speech that he was not running to further his individual beliefs. For these issues, however, his platform clearly demonstrates otherwise.
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In answer to #53's inquiry, from an American:
I have no defense for the current American system of electing our public representatives. It is what it is, and furious debate on the mechanics of the entire process have been going on for years. I expect that the debate will still be raging long after this current election cycle is over. The last eight years have certainly proven headache-inducing for all concerned--and the rest of the world, by association. (Example: the "Sorry Everybody" and "Apology Accepted" post-election-mortem websites that were briefly popular after the 2004 re-election of the current Bush administration.)
As for John McCain's POW experiences seemingly making him qualified to be president, it's not about his experiences per se. It's the marketing image. Because of the deplorable care of our own veterans of war, and especially after 9/11, it has become the "in" thing to overpraise our military. The overpraising is a hyper-awareness and a public attempt to redress legitimate wrongs that were committed to long-suffering soldiers and officers who came home from unpopular wars (Vietnam, specifically) to public vilification by war protesters and indifferent government treatment of the veterans. Especially now, if one does not IMMEDIATELY say to a current veteran "Thank you for defending my country" or something similar, it is seen as unpatriotic at best, high treason or the deepest disrespect at worst. (I could address crimes committed by a handful of veterans who take advantage of this current perception climate to weasel out of their own crimes/shortcomings, but that would be disingenuous.)
Currently, Republicans have latched onto the "patriot" meme for their party platform, as if Democrats aren't sufficiently patriotic or "proud of their country" to be considered American. Thus, John McCain's POW experience fits the Patriot meme perfectly. Here is a man who served his country during an unpopular war, without question or complaint; who suffered intense privations and life-altering injuries as a result of his wartime service; and who had endured his pain in the name of protecting the USA. If he's this much of an American as to sacrifice his health and body for his country in wartime, the assumption is that he would bring the same dedication and work ethic to the highest political position in the land.
Holding onto that meme, the Republicans are doing their level best to paint Barak Obama as insufficiently "American" or not patriotic enough to serve as President. By attempting to use the Patriot/ready-to-serve meme, they avoid the game-ending sticky-wicket of race as a disqualifier.
In other words, Republicans can't say "Don't elect Obama--he's Black" without slitting their own throats. They can safely say "Don't elect Obama--McCain's more patriotic and has already served his country" without much public backlash. However, they're doing their level best to use the Patriot meme and other red herrings (experience, legislation, "empty suit," etc.) to effectively say the same thing.
Hope this helps!
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I must say I think some of the views that Sarah Palin was presenting were extremely backwards and detrimental. For example, having a dig at Obame for not claiming 'victory' in Iraq was an atrocious comment! How can you ever declare victory when a) the aim was never to conquer in the first place b) thousands of innocent lives have been lost and c) the war should never have happened in the first place?!
McCain is not the youngest potential president and we have to face the fact that Sarah Palin could well be taking over as leader of the most powerful country in the world if God forbid his age becomes an issue for him.
I really hope that the American people can look past the 'fight-talk' and make an intelliegent decision by voting for Obama who is much more inspirational and forward-thinking. This has an impact not just on America but the entire world!
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7Harmony,
That's why it's so easy to get a new job at any age over fifty! ;-)Peace,
ed
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Mark,
The last time I saw Ike, I lived in Florida.;-)
ed
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#46 - Chill0
Where exactly have you been for the last 3 years?? You know everyone now agrees that there were no WMDs in Iraq? It was clearly a pretext for regime change and to deny that is to live in some kind of fantasy world...
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Doesn't anyone else find the placards and chanting of "Service" and "Country First" a little too much Joseph Goebbels like?
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I am an Englishman, born in Yorkshire but now also a US citizen (having lived here more than half my life), who can vote in November. I will vote for John McCain for his experience and his knowledge that you can't just say I want to change everything. The whole American political machine is too big to change instantly like Barack Obama wants to do. In my opinion Obama has lots of ideas and spin but no substance inside. If elected he will run into the problem of trying to get his changes through Congress and I think McCain has more chance of effecting change within the system.
I am also one of the registered democrats who will not vote for the party this election, but would have if they had Hillary Clinton as their candiate. The US Political system is very different to the UK, in that the President is a separate election, unlike the Prime Minister, who has to win his own seat, but also have his party win. The president can be in power but have an opposition government in both the Senate and House. With this situation, Washington experience means more than good ideas (or sometimes half baked ideas).
I do have to say though, that the BBC coverage in the USA has been Obama biased form the start - in the primaries their comentators were always up on Obama and down on Clinton. Now they are down on McCain. Perhaps it is wanting a candidate who is more their own age, but I remember the last elections, some people here voted for George Bush because they didn't like other contries telling them how they should vote (again the BBC was very anti-Bush), will those voters go for McCain because other countries are backing Obama?
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Q: WHATS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A HOCKEY MOM AND A PITBULL?
A: EVEN THE DOG DOESN'T BELIEVE IN CREATIONISM.
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The BBC doesn't seem to be posting my comments! The biased swines!
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#84 MarkfromOxford
I believe that as this campaign goes on there will be more and more sexual innuendo about Sarah Palin.
I have yet to see a woman rise in any walk of life without the accompaniment of such innuendo.
I believe the Enquirer also perpetuate a rumour Barack Obama is an Iranian agent.
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Considering the fact that the centerpiece of the Republican party is social and family values, and as incredible as it may seem - fiscal conservatism - it is not surprising that Gov. Palin upstaged her hapless mentor. The theme of the GOP convention, service and patriotism, was not a surprise considering the circumstances.
With the exception of a few references to President Bush, it was clear the GOP candidates are desperately trying to distance themselves from the record of the Bush Administration, and went to great lengths to reassure the public that their policies are different and that they do not plan to engage in the fiscal and economic excesses that contributed to the malaise we are currently in. Whether anyone buys this ruse remains to be seen.
The entire convention was devoid of coherency and depth when it comes to the issues that matter to most Americans; and I don't think ridiculing Obama for his community service record was such a great idea considering the inclination of so many Americans, including Cindy McCain, to do just that.
I admit, once again, that the GOP delegates do wear some real cute hats, but I think they would look better if there were a least a few suntans among them, the place looked so pale it was almost blinding.
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#16 "BBC News are trying to link McCain to the Bush Administration."
Perhaps that's because McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time.
How quickly he forgot how he was treated by Bush's people.
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57, 85:
It might be worth pointing out as well that there is a very large US population spread across Europe that will be eligible to vote. In a close run election those overseas votes might make all the difference. It will not have done Obama any harm amongst that group to have made the trip, quite the opposite.
At least Obama does not pretend that a refuelling stop in Ireland s visiting an overseas country ... as Palin did.
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On a parochial note - if any licence payers want to have a real go at the BBC, we should complain about dear old Jim Naughtie shipping himself off to Denver and Minnesota.
One morning this week we heard over the airwaves something like "Here I am, Jim Naughtie in Denver/Minnesota at the Democrat/Republican convention. And I'm going to hand you straight over to Justin Webb who will tell you all about it"
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The hecklers distracted him and he was flat as usual compared to Palin who got the loudest applause. As Obama pointed out, we all love our country, but it has been broken by his party over the last eight years for the majority of Americans and to imply that he is not a part of that does not hold water. Maverick seems to mean dressing up the same old rhetoric with a renewed commitment to the conservative right's ideals.
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